757 Video

[Titanium]

Don't know if anyone has posted it before:

[FONT=ARIAL,]http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-757_departure.wmv[/FONT]

 

[Metro752]

can't see it, wish i could

 

[Titanium]

sorry...fixed it

 

[Kenny]

That's the boys in the RNZAF, Royal New Zealand Air Force. I think they have a couple of 757's they use for VIP stuff.

Not bad I suppose for a country where there are 5 million people and 15 million sheep!!

 

[Metro752]

that is pretty awesome

 

[FL420]

Ahhh.....Shoulda been lower.

Would have liked to see the recovery.

 

[Cardinal]

That thing had some energy!

 

[Quimby]

Very cool.

 

[mrnolmts]

Dang, would have been fun to be in the cockpit for that one! Too bad the wx wasn't clear. I'd like to see the recovery as well

 

[EagleRJ]

Looked like he had plenty of smash to just ease it over the top above the cloud deck. I doubt if he got anywhere near stall alpha.

I wonder if you could do that in an Airbus. You'd probably get the Blue Screen(s) of Death!

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

so, was that some missed approach procedure? I saw him penetrate that little layer.....

 

[FL420]

Looked like he had plenty of smash to just ease it over the top above the cloud deck. I doubt if he got anywhere near stall alpha.

That nose high for that long dissipated a lot of that smash so a zero G recovery would have been fun and a level recovery improbable. More likely he rolled it to at least 90 degrees, perhaps even inverted.

I wonder if you could do that in an Airbus. You'd probably get the Blue Screen(s) of Death!

Yes, by turning off a few flight control computers placing the A/C flight controls and protections into Alternate Law, Direct Law or Mechanical Backup, the Airbus can do that. VMO is reduced from 350 to 320KEAS but I don't think those guys would have worried about that limitation even though ignoring it would place them in the position of being untrained test pilots.

 

[EagleRJ]

More likely he rolled it to at least 90 degrees, perhaps even inverted.

Wasn't he already in a 90 degree bank?

If he pushed the nose over, he could maintain around 0.3G and the aircraft would still be flying and controllable at 60kts. Keep it coming over until it starts to accelerate again. Stall alpha is the important thing, not 1G stall airspeed, but I'm sure you already knew that!

Yes, by turning off a few flight control computers placing the A/C flight controls and protections into Alternate Law, Direct Law or Mechanical Backup, the Airbus can do that. VMO is reduced from 350 to 320KEAS but I don't think those guys would have worried about that limitation even though ignoring it would place them in the position of being untrained test pilots.

Just eyeballing it, I'd say these guys were doing 400kts as they came down center field. Probably still around 250kts as the camera lost sight of them. I'm sure that's over the Vmo for the 757 at sea level. They still probably wouldn't break anything- it looked like a smooth pull up.
Again, I'm not defending them. Many, many lives and aircraft have been lost around the world after pilots start "seeing what she'll do" and showing off. Just saying that since there wasn't a crash and I'm sure the pilots didn't want to test the 757s spin behavior, I'm sure the recovery was controlled.

 

[Kenny]

I'm pretty sure they do that "maneuver" at airshows in NZ fairly regularly.

 

[mrnolmts]

Wasn't he already in a 90 degree bank?

I saw a near 90 degree pitch.. Didn't see any bank on the video at all. Not sure what you are talking about here...
Also, I'm quite sure you could do this without exceeding any limitations, including Vmo. Have no clue if they in fact *did* exceed any though, so you might be right.

 

[Hovernut]

Well, we did see on 9/11 just how well that airplane held up at high speeds and bank angles at low altitude, didn't we? Too bad the a-holes driving them didn't inadvertently break them apart before they 'met their virgins.'

 

[EagleRJ]

I saw a near 90 degree pitch.. Didn't see any bank on the video at all. Not sure what you are talking about here...

In an extremely nose-high unusual attitude, you generally want to use rudder to return the nose to the horizon, since it has more authority at very low airspeeds than the elevator. Hopefully though, if those pilots had any common sense at all, they didn't let the airspeed decay that much, and a pitch over to the horizon would have been a more normal maneuver.

And yes, it occured to me too that this was probably about the speed AA Flight #77 was going when it hit the Pentagon.

 

[mrnolmts]

In an extremely nose-high unusual attitude, you generally want to use rudder to return the nose to the horizon, since it has more authority at very low airspeeds than the elevator. Hopefully though, if those pilots had any common sense at all, they didn't let the airspeed decay that much, and a pitch over to the horizon would have been a more normal maneuver.

No argument there.. Not sure why you used this explanation to answer my inquiry regarding no bank observed, though... If you're 90 degrees nose up, and use rudder to get the nose down to the horizon, you'll indeed end up with a bank that will need to be corrected as the nose is lowered. However, as we do not see the recovery method used on this video, making a statement that the airplane is already in a bank is incorrect, as a nose-over is fully possible
I, for one, cannot imagine they'd let the airplane get to the point that using the rudder to get the plane back to straight and level was the only option left.. That'd be an asinine maneuver in a 757, especially at that low of an altitude.

 

[BlueLight]

quite impressive and quite a diffference between the skills and professionalism of that pilot vs the hi tech ga pilot who reaches for and pulls the 'chute when temporarily lost in a fog bank or other unusual attitude/gusty condition

 

[FL420]

In an extremely nose-high unusual attitude, you generally want to use rudder to return the nose to the horizon, since it has more authority at very low airspeeds than the elevator.

Oh......Really? Care to elaborate on this?

 

[Hung Start]

I bet the ghost of Tex Ritter is smiling, somewhere.

 

[LJDRVR]

Too bad that in the twenty-first century there are still those among us that feel the need to perform high risk maneuvers in direct contravention of procedural and regulatory guidance.

Looks like another Bud Holland wannabe to me. Today he'll be exceeding speed and pitch limits, tomorrow he'll be performing unauthorized, low altitude aerobatics in a transport category aircraft. Why not just get a Cub instead?

When are we as a group going to quit saying "Cool!" and begin to demand some accountability and minimum acceptable standards of airmanship from our fellow aviators? Hopefully the A/C got his butt handed to him and grounded before he has the opportunity for even more ridiculous rogue behavior.

PS- Hung Start: I believe Tex Ritter was an AVG P-40 guy, Sir. You'd be thinking of Alva "Tex" Johnston who, although he asserts otherwise in his self-pandering autobigraphy, lost his job as head of Boeing Flight Test for his bone-headed stunt, not to mention set a poor example that may have assisted in the demise of a Sabena Airlines 707-430 crew who, while on a training mission, attempted to emulate his stupidity with disasterous results.

 

[Hung Start]

I do stand corrected, Tex Johston it was. But I believe he lost his job for the length of a conversation, and was rehired when Boeing realized the publicity was going to sell quite a few aircraft.
But it is 2 am, and I am running a bit of a fever from some damn bug. So, as always I could be wrong.

 

[mrnolmts]

PS- Hung Start: I believe Tex Ritter was an AVG P-40 guy, Sir. You'd be thinking of Alva "Tex" Johnston who, although he asserts otherwise in his self-pandering autobigraphy, lost his job as head of Boeing Flight Test for his bone-headed stunt, not to mention set a poor example that may have assisted in the demise of a Sabena Airlines 707-430 crew who, while on a training mission, attempted to emulate his stupidity with disasterous results.

Seems he didn't get fired for the stunt, LJDRVR. Anyways, for those interested, here's a link to a story about it:
http://www.historylink.org/output.cfm?file_id=390

 

[EagleRJ]

When are we as a group going to quit saying "Cool!" and begin to demand some accountability and minimum acceptable standards of airmanship from our fellow aviators? Hopefully the A/C got his butt handed to him and grounded before he has the opportunity for even more ridiculous rogue behavior.

True, but it's worth observing that this is was with a foreign air force. It seems like a lot of foreign services don't have either the rules or the oversight that we do (and they have the accident rate to back it up). I've seen some absolutely insane things pulled off by foreign pilots- both in person and on these internet videos. Far more than I've seen with US pilots.

Was Bud Holland the B-52 pilot who bought it during the flyby in the mid-80s?
It seems like every squadron has its hot dog. It's only after decades of Class A mishaps and lives lost that we decided to change the environment and rein in the hot dogs. For a lot of foreign air forces, that hasn't happened yet.

 

[9GClub]

Forget Red Flag..... they should establish an exercise where guys can hotdog it and bend some metal. =)

 

[Bjammin]

Airshows and flybys should always remain a part of aviation. I think this was a flyby at a military airshow. Or if not an airshow at least at a foreign military base whose rules are not the same.

While I agree that hotdogging or flathatting should not be tolerated we still need an arena where limits can be tested and not just for test pilots, but for all military pilots. We need to experience the limits of the aircraft as well as ourselves so we can understand our weaknesses and exploit our strenghts against the enemy. It builds confidence in your equipment and helps you understand exactly how far you can push it.
I also think civilians should be able to reach the limits of there equipment. It would give them more understanding of what they can do if they ever need the aircraft to preform to it's limits and give more confidence to ones abilities.

If it's controlled, authorized, and does not put anyone in harms way, other then the pilot who accepts the responsibility, then GO FOR IT!!

 

[andy_paul]

Ummmmmm, Bob Hoover?

I have seen him do very impressive things with aircraft that were not meant to do so. To be honest, it scared the crap out of me to watch his routine, this was many years ago. How would he ever get there without pushing some limits???

Showboating, hotdogging? nahhh
Doods got skillz brah
As far as I am concerned, he is the pilot of all pilots, hands down.

Some people can hurt themselves on the motorized fat cart at the local Whiskey Tango mart. That shouldnt set the standard for the rest of us.

That 757 belongs to NZ, let them have their way with it.

 

[EagleRJ]

Ummmmmm, Bob Hoover?

I have seen him do very impressive things with aircraft that were not meant to do so. To be honest, it scared the crap out of me to watch his routine, this was many years ago. How would he ever get there without pushing some limits???

Airshow demonstrations are different. In that case, the pilot has carefully planned his routine, and has spent years working up to the level shown during the demonstration. I doubt if Bob Hoover did his full energy management routine the first time he ever climbed into an Aerocommander Shrike!
I've seen some very dramatic performances by transport-category aircraft at airshows too, but again those are factory pilots who have carefully planned every part of the routine, and have probably rehearsed it numerous times in the simulator.

Bob Hoover's airshow routine never scared me. Now Jimmy Franklin (RIP)- he scared me!



Maybe some military pilots who have flown a demonstration at an airshow recently can tell- do military pilots get a choreographed routine to fly at airshows? I'm pretty sure they have limits to what they can do now. They're no longer told to just go up and "wring it out for 15 minutes".

 

[Ill Mitch]

Maybe some military pilots who have flown a demonstration at an airshow recently can tell- do military pilots get a choreographed routine to fly at airshows? I'm pretty sure they have limits to what they can do now. They're no longer told to just go up and "wring it out for 15 minutes".

Yup...it is covered under "Air Force Instruction 11-246" which covers Air Force Demos for the F-15, F-16 and the A-10. Pretty cool read, actually. It covers all manuevers approved by the USAF and the flight parameters that must be met before initiating each manuever.